Rafik Hariri: "Assassinating me is improbable; it is a big decision, one that is dangerous and costly. They want to keep the country sick. No one has an interest in killing a sick person . . . and they reject curing him."
Ghassan Charbel Al-Hayat - 13/02/06//
Does a journalist have the right to publish interviews with
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someone who had stipulated that they not be published before receiving approval, "because timing in politics is important"? I asked myself this question a few hours after I heard that Prime Minister Rafik Hariri had been assassinated. The shock was a big one and the climate was emotional; I was afraid of enflaming people's feelings, since some content might not have been desired by the subject of the interview. I dropped the project. A few days before the first year commemoration of the earthquake of 14 February 2005, I found myself facing the same question. However, I decided this time to publish most of what took place in those interviews in the hope that it will be a salute to the late prime minister and help readers who are searching for details about the path of an exceptional person.
Readers have the right to know the story of these discussion sessions, which were the result of meetings held in Sardinia, Paris, and Beirut over many years. In 1994, I telephoned Prime Minister Hariri, asking him to participate in a series of "X remembers," which was being published by al-Wasat magazine. He hesitated for a while, then agreed. I went to Monte Carlo on 26 December and spent two days with him. This produced three installments, which were published in al-Wasat beginning on 27 February 1995. That day, he told me that "I consider the interview just a beginning, since my political position and responsibilities prevent me from going into many details." He added, "I promise that we'll have another session of discussion later."
In the summer of 1999, I resumed contact. Hariri was out of government. He agreed and I went to Sardinia with a small tape recorder for several sessions on his yacht, where he resided. At the end of the second day, he spoke frankly to me: "It's still too early to talk about what's more important. What do you think about not publishing this now, and we'll spend two days in Faqra later. I'll stop my calls and free myself to gather memories and you'll discover that I was present in one way or another in every phase after 1982."
"While awaiting this appointment, you can ask me what you want, whenever we meet in Lebanon or elsewhere, and you can record my answers, even if we're talking by phone. My only condition is that you not publish anything before I approve. I don't want to hurt the media with politics; can you promise me?"
I promised and began to steal a part of the interview every time we met. Unfortunately, the meetings were few and far between. Hariri returned to office in 2000. The strange thing was that Hariri would remind me of his promise of a private session at his mountain residence in Faqra, but when I saw him for the last time in Qoraytem, two weeks before his assassination, the atmosphere didn't permit taking advantage of such an opportunity. I felt a good deal of tension in his voice as if weighing the likely repercussions of a victory by the opposition in the coming elections.
It's not strange that the personality of Rafik Hariri would intrigue any journalist following Lebanon's present and asking about its future. When, in the "X remembers" series, I tried to gather stories of the war and attempts to exit it, especially in the 1980s, the name Hariri kept coming up, even though in those days he sought to keep his role away from the spotlight and hide his true political clout, to avoid provoking hostility. Rafik Hariri left his fingerprints on every phase, from the abolition of the 17 May Lebanese-Israeli agreement to the "Tripartite Agreements" among the big militias, and up to the Geneva and Lausanne conferences, and the period of the two (warring) governments, followed by the Taif Accord.
The question that occupied me in the 1990s was how Rafik Hariri succeeded in becoming a "top figure" in a period that one assumes didn't allow for such people in Lebanon. I asked Hariri this once, and he asked me for the answer.
"Your financial 'strike force' equals the strength of a militia, one which is bigger than the militias that exist," I said.
"God forbid such a comparison," he answered. "I don't deny that money, if used well, can give you an opportunity, but let me tell you - with your money you can buy a big palace you can't use money to buy the affection of a worker in the palace's garden. There's trust, and follow-up, the ability to give people hope."
He added: "They don't waste any means in destroying my image, they've tried them all. They told the Shiites that I'd come to reduce their political weight. I didn't answer. You know Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and Speaker Nabih Berri, why don't you ask them? They told the Christians that I'd come to Islamize the country. Why don't you ask the Maronite Patriarch (Nasrallah Butros Sfeir) for his opinion? Can you believe that I feel sad when I read about the rise in emigration levels, especially among Christians? More than this - the absence of Maronites in Lebanon robs it of its distinguishing features, and perhaps of the justifications for its existence. I mean what I'm saying. This doesn't do away with my feelings toward some Maronite politicians who don't know the importance of the role of their sect and its importance in Lebanon's role in the region and the world. I have no problem with keeping the presidency for a Maronite, if that reassures them. I have no problem with delaying the abolition of political sectarianism for decades, because I've realized through experience that none of the sects is ready to discuss without sectarian considerations."
Hariri dreamed that after rebuilding Beirut, he would rebuild the Lebanese formula, based on the Taif Accord. Most likely he was waiting for another president in Baabda, to continue the process of rebuilding. He didn't expect that he would be on an assassination list, because "this is a big decision, one that is dangerous and costly."
Al-Hayat: How are you, Prime Minister?
PM Hariri: Excellent.
Al-Hayat: Can you explain?
PM Hariri: (Laughing) Why are you surprised that I'm excellent? Can't a person be comfortable?
Al-Hayat: No, but I believe that being out of office not enjoyable for a politician with the weight of Rafik Hariri.
PM Hariri: Not enjoyable for Rafik Hariri or the country?
Al-Hayat: I have questions, not answers.
PM Hariri: If you look at me, don't you feel that I'm comfortable?
Al-Hayat: I think that you're confident.
PM Hariri: The problem of my rivals is that they're afraid of the people and resorting to them. I accept what the ballot boxes say.
Al-Hayat: What will they say?
PM Hariri: I think people will vote in the country's interest.
Al-Hayat: You seem sure about the results of the Beirut election battle.
PM Hariri: Why are you limiting it to Beirut? There are elections throughout the country, and I'm involved in all regions.
Al-Hayat: Do you mean you will (contest races) in all parts of Lebanon?
PM Hariri: Not in this way. Certain regions have special characteristics, which I respect. However, we have friends, or allies. There are people with which we have things in common.
Al-Hayat: Can I say that you will be the leader of the opposition in the elections?
PM Hariri: (Laughs) You know that the "opposition" is made up of several different "oppositions." They won't accept me among the loyalists.
Al-Hayat: Who's they?
PM Hariri: You know them.
Al-Hayat: Will you try to repeat the experience of 2000, i.e. imposing yourself once again as prime minister?
PM Hariri: As long as this is not being published, except at the suitable moment, I'll speak frankly. I won't be prime minister during the mandate of (President Emile) Lahoud.
Al-Hayat: Is this certain, and regardless of the election results?
PM Hariri: This is final, and there's no going back. I'll say it more clearly: not in Lahoud's mandate or anyone whose presidency resembles his.
Al-Hayat: Like who, for example?
PM Hariri: Anyone who arrives (in office) in the same way, with the same goal, and the same considerations.
Al-Hayat: This means that you won't be prime minister.
PM Hariri: I don't know if your conclusion is accurate, and for how long a period of time.
Al-Hayat: Should I understand that shortening Lahoud's mandate is possible if the opposition takes a majority of seats in Parliament?
PM Hariri: I don't know. President Lahoud's domestic problem is just part of his problem.
Al-Hayat: Are you referring to UN Security Council Resolution 1559?
PM Hariri: That resolution and other things. If you stay the same in a changing world, you're making a mistake.
The Resolution and the Fingerprints
Al-Hayat: They talk about your fingerprints being on Resolution 1559.
PM Hariri: There are people who want me to make me responsible for the results of mistakes that they've made. I ask you, can a politician in the world, from a small country, get the Security Council and great powers involved in his country, especially regarding a resolution of this kind? Even the great powers cannot pass a resolution like this if without a series of conditions, facts, mistakes, and meetings of interests.
Al-Hayat: It's said that President Jacques Chirac played a big role.
PM Hariri: President Chirac and I have an old, deep friendship, and I've always benefited from this in order to bring political or material support for Lebanon; I've also used this friendship to assist Syria, and Syrian officials know this. I benefited from the relationship with President Chirac to support the Taif Accrod, and the idea of reconstruction, and the right of the resistance in south Lebanon. I've done more than this. I've sought to see a French position that understands Lebanon's special conditions, including the presence of Syrian forces on its territory. I took part in improving the relationship between Paris and Damascus. However, everything I've done in this regard has been lost, due to mistakes. The story of how France and the US have come to meet, or agree, about the situation in Lebanon, after their dispute over Iraq, is a long one, and involves several issues.
Al-Hayat: What did you request in return for agreeing to (Lahoud's) extension in office?
PM Hariri: Nothing, just to (step down as prime minister).
Al-Hayat: And why did you bid farewell to Lebanese with that tragic-sounding statement the day you left office?
PM Hariri: For the reason that I disclosed to you, meaning my decision that I would not be prime minister during the presidency of Lahoud or anyone like him. My decision worried me, because they can force me out of office but they can't move the country one step forward; they can't even stop the deterioration.
Al-Hayat: This means that you've tied the country to yourself.
PM Hariri: No, this means that they don't have a program. Their only program is domination, and their only policy is hindering everything that Hariri does.
Al-Hayat: Who do you mean by "they"?
PM Hariri: President Lahoud and those who support him.
Al-Hayat: And what if you lose the elections?
PM Hariri: If I lose in free elections, I'll bow to the will of the people. Let's put modesty aside for a moment. I can win in the most difficult district in Beirut. I can win in other districts. Maybe your residing abroad prevents you from meeting with people outside Beirut. Do you think that I'm weak in Tripoli, and the north, or the Western Bekaa, or Iqlim al-Kharroub, or elsewhere?
Al-Hayat: Why won't you return as prime minister?
PM Hariri: I have sacrificed a lot, and compromised a lot. I did this for the sake of the country, not Rafik Hariri. In many circumstances, my interest as a politician would mean leaving office. Being in office, facing this level of obstruction, eats away at a politician's popularity. Nonetheless, I would continue because I felt that destroying everything that we had built would not be a source of anxiety for them. I acted like a responsible politician, facing his conscience, the voters and the people, and as a believer, responsible before the Lord. This time, it's a matter of dignity. If the price is my not being prime minister (…) and if the price is a smaller parliamentary bloc (…) from now on, there won't be any solutions at the expense of my dignity.
Al-Hayat: Let's go back to Resolution 1559.
PM Hariri: The resolution is related to big developments, which began with the attacks of 11 September, through the war in Iraq, the position on this war, confronting the Americans there, up to the Palestinian issue, and then what is taking place in Lebanon and how influence in Lebanon could be used in other issues. This resolution could have been avoided or delayed at the last minute. Did the decision to extend Lahoud's mandate deserve such a price?
The Role of "Reports"
Al-Hayat: Did you support the presidency of someone else, from among Damascus' friends?
PM Hariri: All of the names that were being discussed fell into this category. It would have been impossible to see a president hostile to Syria, or one who was a political enemy or rival of Syria. A president of this kind cannot rule. He can't even be elected in the first place.
Al-Hayat: So, why did the extension take place?
PM Hariri: I don't understand it. Reports played a decisive role.
Al-Hayat: Where did these reports come from?
PM Hariri: They were Lebanese, and Syrian reports. Imagine that one of them, as someone told me, claimed that I was preparing for a coup against Syria via the elections, and that I gave President Jacques Chirac the name of MP Nassib Lahoud at the summit at the Black Sea with President (Vladimir) Putin and Chancellor (Gerhard) Schroeder. (Laughs) Nassib Lahoud is a respected individual, there's no doubt about that. I believe that if he became president he would think about another person as prime minister. It's a simple issue. Ask Nassib Lahoud himself.
Al-Hayat: Do you believe that the great western powers have take a decision to change the regime in Syria?
PM Hariri: I don't think that there's a decision of this kind. Arriving at such a decision depends on the behavior of the Syrian authorities in the coming phase, and the way that they deal with this resolution. As Lebanese, we have no interest in disturbing the stability of Syria, or bringing down the regime there. We have an interest in a stable and prosperous Syria, a Syria that sees a Lebanon that is stable and prosperous as being in the interest of both countries.
Lahoud and the Shadows
Al-Hayat: Why can't you reach an understanding with President Lahoud?
PM Hariri: Because Lahoud's program, from the beginning, was directed at the program based on which I became prime minister. The core of this project involved security; it was based on complete conformity, and left no room for Lebanese partnership, even if modest, with Syria in administering Lebanon.
Al-Hayat: Was it because of your fear of these feelings that you worked to extend the presidency of Elias Hrawi in 1995?
PM Hariri: Yes.
Al-Hayat: You supported the extension of a president who suited you and opposed the extension of one who didn't?
PM Hariri: I opposed extension because it didn't suit the country. Despite my convictions, I didn't want a clash with Syria, and I didn't want to be a reason for igniting a crisis whose limits are unknown.
Al-Hayat: Was it impossible to arrive at a permanent understanding with Lahoud during the marathon meetings that used to take place between you two?
PM Hariri: Actually, these meetings were never just him and me. There was always a shadow, or shadows, present in our sessions.
Al-Hayat: Shadows of whom?
PM Hariri: Jamil Sayyed, Rustom Ghazaleh, or others.
Al-Hayat: It's said that your last meeting with President Lahoud was extremely pleasant.
PM Hariri: That's true. He told me that I was a patriot and that each of us was serving the country in his own fashion. He was frank with me. I told him that my leaving the prime minister's office did not mean I would obstruct things. I said that my relationship with the authorities would be ruled by my relationship with him, and I hoped that there would be no return to the practices that targeted me at the beginning of his term. He became agitated and said that he would personally oppose any targeting or harassment. I also informed him that I would be running in the elections and that I had no problem in Beirut, whatever the shape of the districts.
Al-Hayat: Has the door between you and Damascus been closed permanently?
PM Hariri: I haven't closed the door. I have no demands. I'm not in an official position, one that would require coordination.
Al-Hayat: Are you headed for testing Syria's strength via the elections?
PM Hariri: I don't want such a test, and I'm not searching for it; it would not help the country. I agreed to the extension so that I wouldn't give such an impression.
Al-Hayat: There are those who have compared your situation at the time to that of Ayatollah Khomeini, when he discussed the drinking from the poison cup after agreeing to a cease-fire with Iraq.
PM Hariri: Have I tasted the poison, or has the country?
Al-Hayat: Why don't you make it easy for someone else to arrive (in office)?
PM Hariri: I was open to any other name. It was no secret that the decision to extend (Lahoud's mandate) was not a popular one in Lebanon, but it was taken. I didn't want to be a reason for a big crisis in the country. I restrained myself, and overcame my personal feelings. I knew that Syria had the last word in this matter, for many reasons, but I expected that the feelings of Lebanese would be respected. I didn't ask for Hariri to be a partner. I hoped that Lebanon's right to be a partner in something Lebanese would be respected.
Al-Hayat: What is painful to you about this experience?
PM Hariri: It pains me to see the existence of a team, gathering civilian, security, political and party officials, who live only to obstruct the program to promote the country. They aren't concerned by a plan to build the state, or reconstruction, or prosperity, or people's daily bread. Their actual interest lies in seeing the country remain sick, and in the hands of the (security) agencies. What they've done in the judiciary and elsewhere is no simple matter.
Al-Hayat: Do you wish that you were born in another country?
PM Hariri: Why?
Al-Hayat: Because the make-up of Lebanon puts limits on political leaders. The Syrian military presence sets down addition limits. In other countries, the leader rules and he carries out his will.
PM Hariri: You want the truth? It pains me that many Lebanese don't know the importance of Lebanon. Our country is important, provided that we deal with national and political affairs in a spirit of responsibility.
How many people can you ask about what they've done for the country, and who can list their accomplishments? The future won't be built by statements and showing off, and repeating the boring stuff about being keen on seeing (state) institutions.
The Relationship with Damascus
Al-Hayat: What is the core of the problem with Syria?
PM Hariri: In the 1970s, a situation in Lebanon arose in which a regional and international belief formed, stating that the war in Lebanon could not be ended without Syrian military intervention. Which was correct. The factors were interconnected; Lebanese, Palestinian, Israeli and international elements were intertwined. After the Syrians entered, the region saw huge events - the Israeli-Egyptian peace, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and we can't forget the Iranian Revolution and the Iraq-Iran War. Without going into details, there arose in Damascus a conviction that Syria's regional role had become linked to its presence in Lebanon, and this presence was a first line of defense of this role, and the regime.
The Taif Accord involved a double objective: conducting a settlement among Lebanese that would allow for the rise of the Lebanese State, and concluding a strategic partnership with Syria that would reassure it and lead it to drop its management of Lebanon. Big regional developments then took place, such as the (Iraqi) invasion of Kuwait, and the Syrian leadership considered that its former tasking (to run Lebanon) had been renewed, and in an open-ended way.
Sometimes, countries are afflicted by the same things that afflict individuals: becoming addicted. Syria became addicted to running Lebanon. We should make an observation here, namely that Syria under Hafez al-Assad continued to retain Lebanon, but it usually observed the balances that needed to be preserved among sects, or within the sects. In the 1990s, there was a trend toward destroying these balances, and this was translated on the ground in Emile Lahoud's becoming president in 1998, and the trend became deeper.
Based on my acknowledgement, and appreciation of the role that Syria played in ending the war, I hoped that it would take the opportunity of the Taif Accord to get out of the details of Lebanese daily matters, and content itself with the strategic relations that reassured it in the fields of security, and the position on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Unfortunately, the program that was prepared for Lahoud and was implemented after he became president supported exiting Taif, and didn't take into consideration internal balance, or sensitivities, and it didn't take note of changes that had taken place in the world.
Al-Hayat: Was your relationship with Abdel-Halim Khaddam, the former Syrian Vice president, one of the reasons why your relationship with the rulers in Damascus declined?
PM Hariri: This relationship began with a request from President Hafez al-Assad and part of it turned into a personal relationship. After President Bashar al-Assad took over, we talked about this topic, and he didn't oppose my seeing Abu Jamal (Khaddam) during my visits to Damascus. Of course, I knew that the Lebanese "file" had gone to others, and my relationship with him was a personal one. I knew who was making decision. I didn't make a mistake in reading these things.
Al-Hayat: Did he oppose Lahoud's extension?
PM Hariri: He was aware of the dangers.
Al-Hayat: Was he among those who advised you, at the beginning of Lahoud's term, to leave the prime minister's position and let the president lose momentum, then return after the elections.
PM Hariri: These topics require a detailed, precise discussion, which I will leave for the future.
Al-Hayat: Is it true that ministers in your various governments would write reports and relay the secrets of Cabinet sessions, and even your personal meetings with them?
PM Hariri: Yes, written reports and oral ones. (Laughs) There were those whose handwriting improved, they wrote so much. Ministers, MPs, and security people.
In fact, there were always different points of view. The first said "keep Hariri out of power, but fear the repercussions." The second said that "keep Hariri as a partner in government, but wear him down by setting traps in the Cabinet, Parliament, parties, and unions." Should I tell you that had they known from the beginning that rebuilding Beirut would return Lebanon to the regional and international arena, they wouldn't have agreed to it? The indicators of success prompted them to prepare a counter-project, which was Lahoud's project.
Al-Hayat: Who engineered this project?
PM Hariri: The biggest role went to Brigadier General Jamil Sayyed. Of course, Sayyed was part of the group. Imagine, Lahoud himself couldn't get rid of the Director of Sûreté Général.
Al-Hayat: But in the 2000 elections, you succeeded in hitting at Lahoud's presidency and you returned to power on a white horse. There are those who say that Brigadier General Ghazi Kenaan (the former head of Syrian intelligence in Lebanon) and Jamil Sayyed helped you. Was there a connection to internal Syrian considerations?
PM Hariri: I was never once part of an internal Syrian calculation. I always rejected even talking about such a topic. The relations I established with Syrian officials in the 1980s and 1990s were done with the knowledge of President Hafez al-Assad. These relations weren't mysterious or secret. This holds true regarding my relations with Abdel-Halim Khaddam, Hikmat Shehabi, and Ghazi Kenaan, and others.
Al-Hayat: But these relations weren't stable in recent years.
PM Hariri: I did everything that I could. Perhaps it's connected to the considerations of others, and perhaps chemistry played a role.
Al-Hayat: What will be your official capacity after the parliamentary elections.
PM Hariri: Head of a parliamentary bloc. Why don't you believe it?
Al-Hayat: Because I feel that you renovated the Government Serail in order to reside there.
PM Hariri: I repeat, I will not be prime minister with Emile Lahoud, or anyone like him.
Al-Hayat: Was the assassination attempt against Marwan Hamade (in October 2004) a message?
PM Hariri: It was an ugly crime, before being a message.
Al-Hayat: Are you afraid for your life?
PM Hariri: First of all, I'm a believer. Second, I don't have a spot of blood on my hands. Third, my conscience is clear. Fourth, I believe that I have good security measures. Fifth, I have the conviction that any decision to assassinate me is improbable; this is a big decision, one that is dangerous and costly, and no sane person would take it. Therefore, I don't think there will be an attempt to assassinate me physically. As for attempts to assassinate me politically, they haven't stopped, and won't stop. They are aimed at keeping the country sick, forever. No one has an interest in killing a sick person, and they reject curing him.
Al-Hayat: Can't you reach a minimum level of understanding with President Lahoud?
PM Hariri: He is unable to reach an understanding with me. Put simply, let me tell you that I've served the resistance in south Lebanon many times over what Lahoud has done for it. And served Syria many times over compared to Lahoud. However, I serve Syria from my position as a Lebanese, and Arab, and what I believe serves the interest of Lebanon and Syria over the long run.
The Hijacked Plane
Al-Hayat: There are those who say that you've made many compromises.
PM Hariri: That's true. I've made many compromises here in Lebanon, because I believe that relations among the sects and political forces in Lebanon should be "natural" ones, even if this means making compromises, whether both sides make them or only one. This style isn't comforting for some people. They don't want me to have a natural, or strong relationship with the Christians. The same with the Shiites.
I've also made compromises regarding relations with Syria. I used to dream that a time would come in which Lebanese and Syrian stability, and Lebanese and Syrian prosperity, would be strengthened and see the rise of natural relations between the two countries, linked by many ties. A relationship in which a Lebanese-made decision would not be seen as a project to threaten ties with Syria, or a source of anxiety for Syria.
Al-Hayat: Going back to Resolution 1559 - did you have a role in "maturing" the conditions for its passing?
PM Hariri: No. It could have been avoided.
Al-Hayat: Did you have prior knowledge about it?
PM Hariri: No, but it was no secret that Lebanon was the topic of discussion between Paris and Washington. I believe that Syrian diplomacy made a mistake when it considered that Lebanon was not important, that it would be enough to show flexibility in Iraq, so that the situation in Lebanon could remain the same. The option of extending (Lahoud's mandate) was considered a confrontational stance.
Al-Hayat: What do you expect in the coming period?
PM Hariri: It will be a period that requires patience and wisdom by all. A difficult phase. Let me sum up the issue of compromises in a comparison, although I don't know how accurate this is. If you're facing a hijacked civilian plane and you can't free the hostages by force, what do you do? My answer is the first priority is the safety and rescue of the passengers. Merely saving Beirut and Lebanon will be a punishment for the kidnappers.
Tomorrow: Part Two
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